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Post by Root Admin on Dec 4, 2008 20:54:23 GMT
This is a hell of a debate and I have learnt a lot about it due to debates I have had on other forums.
Someone else can kick this one off.
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Post by cooldude93 on Dec 4, 2008 21:16:19 GMT
As a person with no experience of debating about it, I will start. Abortion is wrong unless the mother was raped or feels it is unfair to bring the child into the world as they cannot support them when they do get here. Apart from that why end the life of one so small and defenceless purely out of selfishness?
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Post by Root Admin on Dec 4, 2008 21:24:34 GMT
As a person with no experience of debating about it, I will start. Abortion is wrong unless the mother was raped or feels it is unfair to bring the child into the world as they cannot support them when they do get here. Apart from that why end the life of one so small and defenceless purely out of selfishness? I agree with this and this was actually more or less what I posted on that other forum. The problem with this is how you are defining rape. Rape is normally defined as someone being forced into a sexual act without their consent. This is fine until you discover how sketchy the word consent is. If a woman/man is completely intoxicated then they may consent without knowing what the actual consequences may be. Should they be allowed abortion in these circumstances?
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Post by whiteshadow on Dec 4, 2008 22:23:01 GMT
Abortion, right or wrong?
Well, you have to consider where live actually begins. Abortion can be seen as an act of murder, and murder as we all know isn't acceptable and is against the law. Does life begin during the period of pregnancy (forgot the technical term) where the first heart beat begins? or does life begin when the baby is born?
Dependant on what stage you think is the real birth of life on the baby will then differentiate on wether it is an act of murder or not.
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Post by crazer123 on Dec 4, 2008 22:25:01 GMT
hell yeah, everybody should be aloud the right to abort... i think that until they are able to live from a certain age that they shouldnt be aloud to until that point (21 weeks i think)
but as soon as the baby is able to survive outside the mother then abortion should be denied, and up to that point people should be aloud to for any reason
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Post by whiteshadow on Dec 16, 2008 19:47:44 GMT
So the debate ends as, abortion should be allowed?
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Post by Root Admin on Dec 16, 2008 20:18:26 GMT
Don't say it has ended.
It will stay open for any new members to air their opinions.
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Post by Root Admin on Mar 31, 2009 19:37:31 GMT
I'll give this a bump seeing as we have some new members now who will be able to give their take on it.
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.Yema
Helping Hand
Posts: 87
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Post by .Yema on Mar 31, 2009 19:52:38 GMT
I reckon if a women has got pregnant through rape or something similar then yes, she should be allowed an abortion. I also think in those cases it should cost her less seeing as it is not technically her fault at all. Otherwise I don't really like it much, no.
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Post by Shakti on Mar 31, 2009 19:55:31 GMT
In cases of rape or where the mothers or baby's life will be at risk then I'd agree with it. Bearing in mind that I consider it ironic for me to be saying that.
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Post by Root Admin on Mar 31, 2009 20:41:15 GMT
Exactly. I agree with Yema about the price thing too because I don't think a woman should have to spend a massive chunk of their income on removing something that it isn't their fault they have anyway.
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sobiteme
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Post by sobiteme on Apr 2, 2009 18:35:39 GMT
I think abortion should be allowed in all cases in which the woman wants it (provided it's before 21 weeks). If someone wants an abortion they're probably not going to be a very loving mother so why bring a child into the world that isn't really wanted. And say a mother wanted an abortion but didn't have it, how damaging would it be for the child if they found out?
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Post by Root Admin on Apr 3, 2009 19:38:38 GMT
I think abortion should be allowed in all cases in which the woman wants it (provided it's before 21 weeks). If someone wants an abortion they're probably not going to be a very loving mother so why bring a child into the world that isn't really wanted. And say a mother wanted an abortion but didn't have it, how damaging would it be for the child if they found out? That's a very good point. Perhaps it is better to remove the foetus before it becomes human instead of bringing an unwanted and potentially unloved baby into the world.
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MJ
Newbie
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Post by MJ on Apr 3, 2009 22:42:10 GMT
I shall play devil's advocate I guess. And without religion - difficult enough with it.
Abortion is most clearly wrong no matter what. Instead of arguing my point in general I shall focus upon the arguments for it above.
Firstly rape - no matter the circumstances a life is growing inside of you. Another human being for that matter, and anyone that has seen an abortion will know that that bunch of cells wishes to live. Many, a high percentage, of woman who have abortions regret it afterward. It plagues them and that guilt can be more destroying than having the child.
Put it this way - even one-celled creatures are alive. You aren't destroying something not-alive.
Secondly young mothers - if the person in question had unprotected sex of their own accord then the result is their responsibility. They made the life and to be allowed to abort it would relieve them of this responsibility. And if they did abort it, they may later be lead to believe (or believe as of that instant) that they have killed another being, their child.
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Post by damselindistress on Apr 4, 2009 2:16:31 GMT
Abortion, right or wrong? Well, you have to consider where live actually begins. Abortion can be seen as an act of murder, and murder as we all know isn't acceptable and is against the law. Does life begin during the period of pregnancy (forgot the technical term) where the first heart beat begins? or does life begin when the baby is born? Dependant on what stage you think is the real birth of life on the baby will then differentiate on wether it is an act of murder or not. I agree with you. That's why the opinion "it's okay in certain situations" seems very illogical to me and yet most people hold that opinion somehow. Either the fetus is a human as soon as it's conceived and therefore it's murder to get rid of it. I think all of us here would agree that murder is wrong and if murders wrong then it's always wrong to have an abortion because you are killing someone. -OR- It's not alive until 21 weeks. If it's just tissue that means nothing, then why is it EVER wrong? It's not a real person in this case and all you have to do is get a simple procedure so it's completely erased. Is it really wrong to get rid of something that's not even alive because you made a mistake during sex? No. If you don't want it, then you shouldn't have to have it in this instance. EVER. Tissue doesn't mean anything. The only situation where I believe you can be neutral on this issue is if you believe killing a fetus is murder and that murder in some situations is good.
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sobiteme
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Posts: 125
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Post by sobiteme on Apr 4, 2009 9:46:46 GMT
Firstly rape - no matter the circumstances a life is growing inside of you. Another human being for that matter, and anyone that has seen an abortion will know that that bunch of cells wishes to live. Many, a high percentage, of woman who have abortions regret it afterward. It plagues them and that guilt can be more destroying than having the child. A woman/girl has just been forced into sexual intercourse, it's an extremely damaging thing. The girl is going to want to forget about it and a baby is a constant reminder; she's just been forced into sex and now you're going to try and force her into having a baby? Of course she doesn't want to bring up her rapist's baby! It's just ridiculous to expect her to.
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Post by Shakti on Apr 4, 2009 10:52:22 GMT
Firstly rape - no matter the circumstances a life is growing inside of you. Another human being for that matter, and anyone that has seen an abortion will know that that bunch of cells wishes to live. Many, a high percentage, of woman who have abortions regret it afterward. It plagues them and that guilt can be more destroying than having the child. A woman/girl has just been forced into sexual intercourse, it's an extremely damaging thing. The girl is going to want to forget about it and a baby is a constant reminder; she's just been forced into sex and now you're going to try and force her into having a baby? Of course she doesn't want to bring up her rapist's baby! It's just ridiculous to expect her to. Actually, I think you'll find it does happen. Not arguing with anything else you said, you have a point, just pointing out that ridiculous or not, it does happen.
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MJ
Newbie
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Post by MJ on Apr 4, 2009 12:44:19 GMT
I'm not getting into the schematics of whether or not having the baby is damaging to the woman or child themselves, although I will press the point that killing the life inside of you is murder. Adoption is possibly the kinder option for both baby and mother. Remember, for those that have an abortion it never goes away and you can't bring it back.
The child that person is aborting has done nothing wrong.
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Eilidh
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member is defying gravity
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Post by Eilidh on Apr 4, 2009 13:22:48 GMT
Abortion is a subject which I am very open minded about. Personally, I could never do it as I see it as ending a life. But I can understand why people do it.
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Post by Root Admin on Apr 4, 2009 13:26:20 GMT
I shall play devil's advocate I guess. And without religion - difficult enough with it. Abortion is most clearly wrong no matter what. Instead of arguing my point in general I shall focus upon the arguments for it above. Firstly rape - no matter the circumstances a life is growing inside of you. Another human being for that matter, and anyone that has seen an abortion will know that that bunch of cells wishes to live. Many, a high percentage, of woman who have abortions regret it afterward. It plagues them and that guilt can be more destroying than having the child. Put it this way - even one-celled creatures are alive. You aren't destroying something not-alive. Secondly young mothers - if the person in question had unprotected sex of their own accord then the result is their responsibility. They made the life and to be allowed to abort it would relieve them of this responsibility. And if they did abort it, they may later be lead to believe (or believe as of that instant) that they have killed another being, their child. With rape, I believe that abortion should be allowed because I see no reason why a woman should be forced to spend every day with a child that constantly reminds them of the awful ordeal they were forcibly put through. I agree with you on the young mothers bit. They made the baby consensually, so they should have to have it. Although, there is the argument that the baby may then be unloved and would have a poor quality of life.
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MJ
Newbie
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Post by MJ on Apr 4, 2009 13:32:59 GMT
Key word: adoption.
The reason I would argue against abortion in the case of rape is because the baby can be adopted, and abortion is effectively ending a life than did nothing to anybody else. As said before this can stay with the woman forever, and may lead to problems in later life. Something good CAN come out of a terrible experience.
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sobiteme
Best Friend
Judge me all you like but keep the verdict to yourselves.
Posts: 125
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Post by sobiteme on Apr 5, 2009 9:10:28 GMT
Key word: adoption. The reason I would argue against abortion in the case of rape is because the baby can be adopted, and abortion is effectively ending a life than did nothing to anybody else. As said before this can stay with the woman forever, and may lead to problems in later life. Something good CAN come out of a terrible experience. There are two many children in care homes already, there's no guarantee that the child will get adopted. Also, for example in rape, the mother will still have to carry the baby and give birth when they might just want to forget. Even if they put it up for adoption after it's been born, they'll still have to deal with it untill it's born.
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MJ
Newbie
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Post by MJ on Apr 5, 2009 11:09:38 GMT
I hate arguing the wrong side of the fence xD.
The situation out there is hardly a consideration factor before the birth of a child. That's like saying those children deserved to be born, while the one about to be aborted does not. The general point is that the foetus is alive, and it will be as psychologically damaging to give birth as it will be to abort. No two ways about it that each has it's own issues.
The question would have to be to consider which implication is the worst - which is more morally wrong? Aborting a baby with a right to life, or carrying the baby and giving birth to it? That baby could grow up to be anything or do anything.
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Post by Root Admin on Apr 5, 2009 11:49:40 GMT
I hate arguing the wrong side of the fence xD. Someone has to do it to keep things going.
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Post by damselindistress on Apr 5, 2009 16:57:57 GMT
Key word: adoption. The reason I would argue against abortion in the case of rape is because the baby can be adopted, and abortion is effectively ending a life than did nothing to anybody else. As said before this can stay with the woman forever, and may lead to problems in later life. Something good CAN come out of a terrible experience. There are two many children in care homes already, there's no guarantee that the child will get adopted. Also, for example in rape, the mother will still have to carry the baby and give birth when they might just want to forget. Even if they put it up for adoption after it's been born, they'll still have to deal with it untill it's born. That's not true. There's such a high demand for newborn babies in this country (most people have to go to other countries to adopt) that when you're pregnant and want to give a baby up, you actually get to choose who gets it and interview people because a lot of people will apply for your baby. My Aunt was infertile and it was very, very hard for her to find someone who would let them adopt their newborn. She applied and begged and it was a very emotional process for her, although she finally did get my cousin Christina after awhile. What you are thinking of is children who get taken away from their parents by social services. No one wants to adopt them because they aren't newborns anymore. People always want the newborns. TomBeasley: Yes, I've heard you give that argument repeatly, but when you do so, you completely ignore the real issue: whether abortion is murdering a baby or not. What do you believe? Is it murder or not? Although before you answer consider these two things . . . If it is murder, then you believe it's okay to murder people in certain situations. Why? There should be two victims instead of just one when someone is raped? Why do you believe that. If you don't believe it's murder, then, even though it's only tissue, you don't believe it's okay to get rid of tissue in all situations unless someone was victimized. Why? It's not like it's a real person. Why does it matter why the person wants to get rid of it if it's just tissue? The argument about being rape is actually unimportant, unless you are arguing that murdering babies is okay when someone was raped because if the baby is just tissue, then people should have abortions whenever they want. And you guys, seriously, think about this . . . Why are you so determined to punish the fetus because of a rape? Shouldn't the one that gets killed be the RAPIST and not the baby? You're using the fetus as a scape goat for the real criminal. Seriously, I think we should make rape laws harsher so these kind of situations don't happen as much, instead of killing the results of rapes. Even if you get rid of the baby, it's not like you get rid of the memory or pain of the actual rape. Nope, you're just putting a happy bandaid over the whole thing and leaving the mother often feeling empty. How about we do a better job preventing rapes from happening in the first place and also at making sure rapists go to jail and pay the full price for what they did? 1 in 4 women get raped. That's 25% of us! That's way too high of statistic. It's disgusting and should be stopped.
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